season 1, episode 6: on confidence with Laura James

We sit down with Laura James, an enterprise SEO agency-side and talk about so many things, though communicating, the importance of having confidence in yourself, and what it means to be organised with enterprise-sized clients.

Folks mentioned:


AMANDA: This is Amanda, your host for this podcast called engage on enterprise SEO, where we go where no one has gone before and dive deep into the world of enterprise from as many different angles and viewpoints as we can tackle. With me today, we have Laura James, a senior SEO consultant at Flow SEO. Speaking about her experiences working with enterprise clients agency side.

Alrighty folks, welcome. Today I have with me Laura James, who is a senior SEO consultant at a digital marketing agency in the UK. Laura, hello, welcome. How are you?

LAURA: Hi, Amanda. Yeah, great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

AMANDA: Of course. And just to kind of get right into things, tell us a bit about your background, how you got into agency working with larger clients. Tell us a bit about yourself and all that.

LAURA: Yeah, yeah. So I started in SEO probably getting close to seven years ago now. I was doing some sort of admin work outside of uni and eventually decided that I was a bit too soul destroying and I needed something a bit more creative. So I did a bit of research and then I found SEO and there was a local agency hiring and I just learned all the jargon that I could.

I read as many articles as I could and basically blagged my way in there. I’m not going to lie, and, and yeah, just, just kind of built it up from there. So I started with, with local businesses, built my way up to nationals and then I moved to the agency that I’m at now, and I work on, large brands with, you know, multiple locations, international brands as well and also large e-commerce sites. So I guess you could call those all enterprise companies and sites.

AMANDA: Yeah, absolutely. Now you kind of had a bit of a natural progression, it seems in terms of starting with smaller companies and working your way up. Looking back as you’ve gone through that progression, how has your attitude or your approach to SEO shifted given the different challenges of the different businesses that you are working with?

LAURA: Yeah, I guess my attitude towards SEO in general is to go a lot deeper. And with the larger websites and the larger organizations that you work with, you kind of have to be a lot more organized. And you have to, you can’t just rely on sort of a single crawl from Screaming Frog.

You know, you have to go…a lot more in depth, you need to pull in multiple tools. You need to make sure that all of your sheets are really organized because, you know, you’re dealing with sometimes hundreds of thousands of URLs, hundreds of Google My Business listings, that sort of thing. So I guess, you know, when you start out with those sort of single sites with a single maybe brick and mortar location, and they only target the immediate area.

Things are very straightforward. And I think as you start to build in the complexity of larger sites, you kind of realize, oh, okay, I can’t work like this anymore. There’s, there’s, there’s so much more that you need to factor in. And also in terms of, stakeholders, you know, you can be working with a one-man band from, you know, when you first start out in your career, and then suddenly you’re working with teams from the U S., teams from the UK, everybody wants to say, everybody wants a slice of the pie and, and, you know, input into what you’re doing. So you really have to have the mindset, I guess, of I’m, I’m the expert. You know, they’re paying me for my expertise. I’ve worked in this industry for so many years. I have this much experience. I have to get across that what I’m recommending to them is the way that they should go.

And it comes down to buy in a lot of the time, it comes down to buy and it comes down to trust. So you really have to like say have the expert mindset, you know, I know what I’m talking about, you’re really good at your job, I’m really good at my job, or so I like to think. And you almost have to sell yourself to them, you know, you have to.

Yeah, I guess you have to build that trust in a really early stage and kind of prove what the value is going to be, you know, what the roadmap is, how long it’s going to take, and ultimately how it’s going to affect their bottom line. I think that’s one of the big differences between smaller, you know, local businesses and the bigger enterprise organisations is that, you know, they’ve all got pots of money, they’ve they’re all being squeezed, they’re all, you know, reporting to someone higher potentially.

And yeah, I guess that’s probably the biggest mindset shift I’ve heard.

AMANDA: Yeah, for sure. And just to pull it back from the beginning of that story, you said you had to learn how to stay organized. How do you stay organized? What do you do?

LAURA: It’s, it’s, yeah, I think it’s definitely an individual thing. I’ve always been told, weirdly, that I’m really organized and, you know, one of the most organized people that people have met and I don’t necessarily always agree with that but I think having the basics, folders organised, documents properly named, sheets that offer a specific task, so maybe you’ve got an audit sheet and everything that’s related to the audit is within that sheet in separate tabs so you’re not having to pull in different sheets.

Things like that, you know, it can, it can be quite basic things, but when you’re building up to, you know, uh, like I said, hundreds of thousands of URLs and things like that, you’ve got to be able to quickly find this information and pull in this data and ultimately deliver it to the client in a way where they’re going to understand what issues you’re seeing and what, and why you’re making the recommendations that you’re making.

So, so yeah, I think, I think that the, the basic, you know, folder organization side of things, you know, really comes into play. And if you can get that down early on in your career, you know, same with emails, you know, put them in client folders. Don’t just have a massive long list of emails. You know, it sounds basic, but if you can get that down, then, then that will stand you in good stead in the future.

AMANDA: Gosh. Then you can’t see the state of my desktop at the moment.

LAURA: Oh, you should see mine. I’m not perfect. Don’t worry.

AMANDA: Now, kind of following off of that, what’s the biggest oh shit moment you’ve had when you’ve been working with an enterprise client and how did it end up going?

LAURA: Oh, that’s a good question. It must have been when I’ve broken something. Like, you know, I think I was working with, it was probably a Salesforce CMS at the time that I’d never worked before. I can’t remember what I was trying to do. I think maybe I was trying to just edit some title tags or something like that. And I was like, where the hell do I even find this information? You know, I was trying to find the actual, the file for the page I was looking for.

And I think I must have changed something. I must have like edited a config file or something by accident. Ended up taking the site down. Thankfully it was only quickly, but, but yeah. Yeah. Those things happen. You’ve got to be upfront about it. You’ve got to kind of not be too hard on yourself as well. At the end of the day, the day it happened because I was trying to do something good for the client.

I realized really quickly, I fixed it really quickly. And at the end of the day, it all worked out okay. But yeah, you’ve got to own up to stuff like that. And thankfully the client was really good about it. I think if it had gone the other way, then I would have had a bit more explaining to do, but you don’t become experienced in this industry without taking a side down or two. So.

If that happens to anyone who’s working on a small site or a large site, I would just say, you know, what take in your stride, learn from it. And it might happen again, but yeah, do your best. And at the end of the day, working with different CMS is, is going to make you a more valuable SEO in the future in your career. You’ll have that experience. You’ll know what to touch and what not to touch and what maybe you need to get a dev to help you with. So yeah it’s sometimes it’s hard to learn that kind of thing without actually doing it.

AMANDA: No, absolutely. I’ve definitely broken a site or two myself. And on the on the other side of the other side of that, how what have you been kind of most excited by and most proud of when you’ve worked on enterprise sites and and how how has that come to fruition?

LAURA: I think one of the sort of biggest successes has been working kind of in unity with other departments. So the paid team, the UX team and stuff like that. And I’ve got the benefit of working with a sort of full service agency so I can kind of pull in various people. So if I need help with a project, you know, I want to do some CRO work or things like that. There are experts I can pull in.

So I think that is probably one of the benefits for enterprise companies, at least working with full service agencies in that they’re able to do that, rather than you having to go to a different freelancer, there’s a different agency for that. It’s all in one place. So yeah, I guess, I guess working in that way has kind of got us the biggest SEO biggest SEO kind of wins, I would say, over the years I’ve been working for my current agency.

I think individually, something that I particularly enjoy working on for enterprise companies is kind of the keyword research and content side of things. I love digging into kind of the nuances, you know, especially when it comes to international stuff, you know, the different cultural nuances and the, you know, localization and slang and, you know, all stuff like that. You know, you’re talking to so many different markets, where people who call things different things.

Like there was an example that I saw at Brighton SEO where someone was saying that in Brazil they don’t say private jets, they say, what is it? Something like air taxis or something like that. So I just love digging into all that stuff and then obviously putting that into practice and getting results for clients that way. So yeah, that’s something that I really enjoy.

AMANDA: No, absolutely. You’ve mentioned this a couple of times and I know how important it is for enterprise as well. You’ve talked about stakeholder management and building trust. Everyone has different strategies for that. What are some of your go-to strategies to build trust and kind of build that relationship with your enterprise level or kind of larger client stakeholders?

LAURA: I think…I think for me, building trust really starts at kind of the pitch stage. I always try and if I know that I’m gonna be working on a client that we sign on, then I always try and make sure that I’m, you know, one of the experts on the pitch as well. And I think in a kind of cheesy sense, it’s just about making them like you from the start. You know, if you can kind of break that barrier, that kind of like gray, stony sort of facade and.

And ultimately just kind of make them laugh and make them more human. Then that is, you know, a massive start to building that initial trust. And then I think once you’ve, you’ve developed that kind of more friendly relationship and you’re able to kind of talk to them on a level almost. Then you can start looking at, okay, what are the stats? What, what’s the data that I can put behind my recommendations? Who am I?

Explaining my recommendations and putting that forward to them in a way that they can understand and ultimately report upwards, you know, how are they going to report what I’ve said to them that they might understand but maybe their superior doesn’t necessarily understand and I don’t know them, I don’t have their buy-in, so it very much comes down to kind of in the more developed stages of the relationship how you…Yeah, how you present that information. And ultimately it’s about education.

If you can, you know, explain something that’s perhaps quite technical or, you know, very in depth or very specialized to someone who doesn’t really have very much understanding of SEO and why it works and why we do it. And then you will ultimately find yourself getting more sign off and getting bigger budgets. You’re able to push past deadlocks and blocked pieces of work much more easily. I think it was, is it Tom Kapo who’s done the mini MBA for SEO or something like that and he does a lot of work on kind of how to…

AMANDA: Tom Critchlow, yeah.

LAURA: Tom Critchlow, yes, sorry, yeah. And yeah, he does a lot of work on, you know, CEO buy-in and things like that and how to ultimately sell yourself and stuff, so…I think that kind of definitely comes into it. You know, it’s all well and good being able to do an SEO audit and finding, you know, a lot of issues that are going to move the needle and being able to present them. But if you can’t present them in a way that the stakeholders understand that they can see value out of, that they can perhaps even see what the cost of not doing anything is.

If you’re able to explain that again with data that they understand and care about. So, you know, more a bottom line, profits, maybe related data. If you were able to get your hands on that, then yeah, you’re, you’re going to find it far, far easier to get by in and to ultimately get sign off on the projects that you want to push forward.

AMANDA: Now, I, I don’t know about you, but in those conversations, I have some some favorite metaphors and things that I lean on to help explain more technical elements of SEO to people who may not have that maturity. One of my favorites is that I say that Google is like a toddler on a sugar high. If you don’t put any obstacles in its way, it’ll run around and find everything. And then if you put something in its way, it’ll…fall into it and have a tantrum. What about you? Have you found that there are any particular metaphors or similes or ways of framing or explaining SEO that really resonate with your stakeholders or that you’ve had good luck with?

LAURA: I guess the only one I can think of is one that I’ve had recently. I think maybe even yesterday where…And I was talking to a client about page speed. So I did an audit on their staging site and basically presented to them that, you know, maybe some of the mobile pages were not as fast as they could be. And the client basically said to me, okay, I understand that. How do I explain that to my stakeholders? So to her superiors, essentially.

And I basically tried to explain it in a way that they would understand if they were physically looking at the website. So instead of talking about, you know, time to first bite, you know, page speed score, all of that stuff, I basically said, for you to be able to use this page, it’s going to take this long. So it’s not necessarily a metaphor. It’s just really, really basic mechanics of how page speed works. And yeah, exactly.

So that’s kind of what I went back to her and said, and I said, look, if you want to explain it to them, just literally say to them before they can physically start using this page, so scrolling, clicking on buttons, seeing all the content and stuff like that, they’re going to have to wait this long. And I also went back to her and sort of said, you know, and research says that people tend to click off websites within, was it two or three seconds?

And, you know, that happened to be higher than this in this case. So that kind of really puts it into perspective. Okay, we’re going to start seeing bounce rates increase. And so, yeah, sometimes it’s it’s sometimes it’s it’s not necessarily about, I guess, dumbing things down too much, but it’s just kind of what will they understand?

You know, everybody uses websites. Everybody knows what it’s like to use a slow website. Everybody knows that frustration. If you can put it to them in that terms, in those terms, then yeah, they’ll get it. They don’t need to know about SEO. They don’t need to know about the PageSpeed Insights tool or Lighthouse or any of these other things. Yeah, that’s my most recent one anyway.

AMANDA: And as someone who’s worked kind of primarily agency side. What do you wish in-house teams remembered about agencies or what’s kind of the best working relationship that you have with an in-house? What’s the ideal scenario for you?

LAURA: I guess what I’d wish in-house teams would remember about agencies. On one side is that we have many clients. You’re not the only client that we work with in the nicest possible way. Yes, I mean, if you know you want to spend tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of whatever a month, then you can be our one and only focus and that’s great, but more often than not, that’s not the case.

So you need to be realistic in your kind of demands on our time. On the other side of things, ultimately, what we want to do is be an extension of that in-house marketing team. So we want them to understand that we’re ultimately there to help them. You know, that’s, that’s the bottom line. They, they pay us for our expertise. It pays for our knowledge. They pay us, quite often for a practical implementation of these recommendations that we have. Let us help you.

You know, put as few barriers as you can in place for us, remove as many stakeholders as you can, you know, just keep things simple, straightforward, the line of reporting, keep it simple, and we will be able to get you results basically. The more blockers that you put in our way, the slower your results are gonna be. And sometimes I’ve had situations where, you know, we’ve said something to a client. We’ve presented it in the best way that we can.

And the person that we usually speak to on an account comes back to us and said, the guy above me or the woman above me says no. They just don’t wanna do it. They don’t wanna change the title tags. They don’t wanna change the content. Whatever the recommendation is, it’s like, computer says no. And it’s just so frustrating because it just makes you think, why are you paying us?

You know, when maybe you could be spending that money elsewhere, you know, we’re literally just trying to help. We’re not doing it for our own ego. We’re not doing it to, you know, win awards, although that’s nice. That’s like the cherry on the cake sometimes. But ultimately, that is what you’re paying us for, and that’s what we’re trying to do. And if we could get that message across to every kind of…you know, CMO, digital marketing manager, and they would be like, okay, Laura, I understand now I will let you help me. That would just be amazing.

AMANDA: Onto a topic that may be a little bit more fraught, but I think it’s worth getting your opinion on as someone who is female presenting and in a relatively, at least perceived to be technical, male kind of industry, how have you felt that or not felt that in your interactions with clients and how have you kind of…learned to navigate it and work with it throughout your career.

LAURA: Um, yeah, I think, I think the whole gender thing in SEO is, at least within the industry is getting better. I’ve definitely had situations with clients where, especially in my early career when it was the kind of one man bands, you know, quite small businesses that often only targeted a single city or, you know, the UK. That they were much more old fashioned, I want to say, and more traditional, and they were kind of almost more comfortable with me providing recommendations around content and keywords than they were around technical SEO.

And especially with the implementation of things like that, it was almost like, okay, I hear what you’re saying, but can we get this guy to actually do with the work? And you know, sometimes even even now, you know, myself and my colleagues have found that even even some women, like the the context that we have within clients, even sometimes the women can be a bit more like, okay, can we get this guy on the account? Because I want to know what his opinion is. And if it correlates with your opinion, then okay, that’s cool.

So yeah, I think a lot of the time for me it’s manifested in the way that almost it’s hard for me to be heard, it’s hard for me to get my point across, it’s hard for me to kind of be validated and almost when we bring a second person onto the account whether that’s in a senior support role, a director role, whatever the case may be, suddenly it’s almost like, okay, I’m sitting off, I’m listening now.

Whereas I’ve been saying the exact same thing, sometimes for months, and it’s like, you know, it goes in one ear and out the other. So yeah, I definitely say it’s something I’ve experienced, I know it’s something that my female colleagues have experienced as well. I would say that it’s getting better, and I think that as…as women or female presenting people go through their career in this industry, I think what you almost have to do is you have to kind of have that mantra of I am the expert. You can disregard me as much as you want. You can say, Oh, what was a client said to me recently?

Oh, I remember, what was it? Something like, thanks girl, or something like that. And I was just like, absolutely mortified. And I was just like, okay. You know, you have to kind of, yeah, it was very much a kind of like, did he really just say that moment? You have to kind of have that mindset of I’m the expert because if you don’t, it doesn’t really matter how many years you spend in the industry. If you aren’t able to carry yourself in that way, um, with, with clients who are like that, then you will struggle to progress because you won’t be able to get the results that you need in order to kind of show your worth, you won’t be able to build up to bigger, bigger clients with, you know, there’s multiple stakeholders, some of which have these prejudices.

So yeah, I think, I think mine says is very much part of success within the industry. And it is getting better. Like I said, you know, we’ve got a lot more conferences in the industry that, you know, are more gender diverse, ethnically diverse, which is amazing. We’ve got, thankfully, you know, social platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, where we’re constantly seeing, you know, these new names, new voices, you know, new opinions coming up and it’s amazing. And yeah, I think that clients are still sort of starting to understand that if you’re put on the account, you’re not gonna be moved off the account just because they don’t like you.

It’s, you know, no, I am a senior SEO consultant and I will help you whether you like it or not. Obviously, you know, if it gets to the point where clients are being actively rude or discriminatory or, you know, just being horrible people then, you know, hopefully your employer or your agency, whoever are gonna step in and hopefully do something about to even cut ties with that client. But yeah, yeah. To sum it up, I would say it comes down to mindset. And I think, you know, especially as you get older, like I’ve just had my 30th birthday this year.

I’m also a mum to a toddler so I’m kind of just like you know what I don’t really care what you think of me anymore I’m gonna do my job if you don’t like it then that’s your problem not mine so yeah that sounds like a you problem

AMANDA: Yes definitely now along with kind of growth there’s also an and mindset, there’s that self-directed growth and self-directed mindset, which in SEO, a big part of that is learning. So how have, what have you continued to learn? What have you enjoyed the most? You mentioned content and internationalization before, but walk me through a bit of what your kind of learning journey has looked like in SEO.

LAURA: So to start with, it was very much just kind of getting the best grasp of the basics that I could and kind of really throwing myself into trying to physically implement things. So as I said, you know, I’d go into FileZilla and I’d manually update HTML files and things like that, sometimes breaking things sometimes not.

And then you kind of broaden out to more theoretical stuff, maybe testing. And you ultimately want to become sort of more like a T-shaped marketer. So SEO, you know, the broad stuff, you know, the pillars of SEO you have a really good grounding on, but then maybe you think, okay, I’m really interested in international in my case, and also organic video, as I have a background in video.

So with those, I think, you know, just being open to different opportunities, as I said, you know, following a lot of different voices, sometimes not even people directly involved in SEO. I think, you know, sometimes it’s just experts in data, experts in algorithms, experts in Google as an entity, you know, just following some of the stuff and reading some of the insights that they give. Like I think it’s…I’m probably going to get a name wrong. It’s Marie Haynes, I think, is on Twitter.

And she gives some really interesting insights into the Rater guidelines. So yeah, I think just being open, you know, following as many people as you can, also putting stuff out there and not being afraid to be a little bit vulnerable when it comes to your development and your progression.

I think on the whole, I found that the SEO kind of industry and everyone that works in it is very supportive. There’s a few, you know, bad eggs that think they know everything and think they’re better than everyone. But on the whole, especially, you know, within the women in tech Slack channel that I’m a part of, and I know you’re a part of as well, I found nothing but, you know, support and love and generosity in terms of…you know, just the freedom to get things wrong. I think that’s so important in terms of your employer as well, if you can find an agency like I have who’s comfortable with mistakes, because ultimately we can’t get better without them. I now know how not to break a website.

So, you know, yeah, it’s all about being open to new things, I guess, if you’re just constantly doing the same thing day in, day out, then you’re never going to progress, you’re not going to grow, you won’t have anything to talk about. So yeah, I think in terms of the stuff that I’m really interested in, so in the international and organic video side of things, I think the Brighton SEO individual training days has been really useful.

Again, finding experts within those particular, industries to follow and learn from has been really useful. And also just kind of, in some cases, when you start out with these specialisms, just sort of blagging it, you know, maybe you’ll do like a training session for a client. And through the process of doing that, you actually realized that one, you know a lot more about the subject than you thought you did, and two, you’ve learned a whole host of new things just from this one exercise that you can then go on and improve on.

So what you’re delivering to clients in the future is even better. So yeah, my advice for anyone looking to learn a new specialism or something really particular about SEO to dig deep into it is to just try it, just give it a go and, you know blag it, you know, there’s nothing wrong with that as long as you’re providing value. And ultimately through that is a learning experience.

AMANDA: Yeah. Absolutely. Now, specifically with enterprise and larger clients, was there anything or what did you end up having to learn or having to kind of come to grips with aside from what we’ve already talked about around kind of stakeholder management and being organized that you didn’t necessarily anticipate or expect? Was there some technologies that are still really popular or anything like that?

LAURA: I think as you move into larger sites and larger clients, you do become more reliant on technology. At the agency I work at, we have some tools that we’ve built specifically for ourselves to use, you know, particularly for kind of the more time-intensive sort of menial tasks like redirect mapping. Meta description writing, that sort of thing. That is just not physically possible for you to sit there and write meta descriptions or to map every single individual URL. I deal with a fair amount of website migrations and yeah, it’s just not possible. I’ve sat there and tried to write every single alt text myself. No, my brain is not built for that.

So yeah, I think you do find yourself kind of researching into what tools are available, what they’re actually capable of. I think the Screaming Frog in particular is just an absolutely invaluable tool for any SEO, for any website that you’re working on. And they’re constantly rolling out things like the Search Console API for resubmitting URLs and things like that.

It’s just…It sounds so simple and it kind of is, but to someone working on a website that’s got, you know, tens of thousands of URLs is really invaluable. So, yeah, I think do your research and don’t be afraid to try and build your own tools if you don’t find something out there. I’m not saying that I have built my own tools because there’s been people who’ve supported us in doing that.

But yeah, don’t be afraid to reach out to someone who has skills in that area. In terms of the content side of things, I don’t know if you’ve heard about this Lex tool that’s been built, but I’ve tried that recently and that sounds amazing. You know, not for writing 100% AI content, obviously, because we don’t want to be doing that, but just for that kind of nudge and that help with starting that process and kind of refining your writing and ultimately making it better. So.

Yeah, different tools. Um, they, they come in, you know, all shapes and sizes. So just, yeah, see what’s out there. And I think that is probably going to be the biggest difference between someone working on a, a site that’s got maybe, I don’t know, 500 pages to a site that’s got, you know, about hundreds of thousands of e-commerce, product pages. So. Yeah.

AMANDA: No, absolutely. What’s next on your learning list?

LAURA: What’s next on my learning list? I think I definitely like to get a better handle of GA4 because it kind of scares me a little bit. And I think that’s the same with a lot of SEOs. You know, it’s, it’s such a big change to what we’re used to. And some of the, um, the, the webinars and articles that I’ve read about it, you know, it seems like there’s quite convoluted ways to get very simple information, like for example, how many goal completions were from organic for this particular page. You could find that in current analytics in a minute, if less.

But now there’s very different ways of doing it. It’d be interesting to see if that is actually rolled out when planned or if it gets pushed back a little bit more.

I have the feeling that adoption rates aren’t as high as they probably should be. Yes, it’s happening and I think we understand why it’s happening. We don’t necessarily like it, but yeah, that’s definitely high up on my list. I guess, I guess other things are the things that I’d really like to get into more kind of data manipulation, you know, really getting my head around, regex and things like that. Python, you know.

Um, anything that’s going to help, uh, ultimately make SEO tasks again, easier and digging into that data, especially, you know, enterprise data, a lot quicker and a lot simpler. So yes, I would say they are my key things to learn in the next year or so.

AMANDA: Yeah, I’m pretty much on that same path. I think it’s GA4 and Python for me are the next ones. Yeah, definitely.

LAURA: Yeah. It’s so, I was just going to say, I think it’s, it’s one of those things that sometimes you don’t expect to have to learn about. I came into SEO because I thought it’d be super creative and I’d just be doing, you know, fun bits of content and stuff like that. And then actually you find out you’ve got to kind of be a bit of a data expert as well.

Which was quite scary for me coming from a background of being a little bit traumatised by maths and numbers. So yeah, I’ve got past that, thankfully, but yeah, it’s something I want to dig deeper into. And I never thought that I would say that. So yeah, it’s interesting.

AMANDA: Absolutely. But last question. If there was one piece of advice you could give yourself before you started working on larger clients, what would it be?

LAURA: I think if I were to go back and speak to Laura from many moons ago, I would probably say don’t expect it to be easy and don’t expect it to be what you’ve gotten used to for these past few years. Expect a lot of changes, expect to get things wrong. But don’t be afraid, because it will work out and you will learn from it and you will get better at it.

That’s what I would say.

AMANDA: I want to offer a massive thank you again to Laura for joining me on Engage on Enterprise SEO and sharing her experiences and learnings. If you want to continue the conversation, find me by my company, Floq, that’s F-L-O-Q on LinkedIn. Follow me on Twitter at Amanda E. C. King, or reach out to me directly if you’re interested in talking about my own strategic consulting services. Have a lovely day and enjoy listening to the rest of season one.